S3 E9: Do I Need More Faith to See a Miracle? ✨🙏

Becky: 00:00:00

What's up, everybody? It's Becky here, and we're here for another episode of the podcast. And Zur is joining me, as always.

And we have a very special guest today. We have none other than our lead pastor, Pastor Jason Paredes. How do you feel about being here?

Jason: 00:00:22

Oh, I'm so excited.

Zer: 00:00:24

Let's go.

Becky: 00:00:25

We're here to talk about something. Something that I think everybody would kind of know about, and we talk about, especially at our church. We talk about it a lot.

But we wanted to touch a little bit more on prayer and whether or not we believe in miracles. And I think those two, I feel like people put them together a lot, but they don't have to be.

And so we might just have to focus on one versus the other today. But I kind of wanted to introduce the topic. I'm also extra excited that you're here.

I think I told you this already because me and Zur always say at the beginning of most podcasts, like, we do not represent field of church. Like, this is just a conversation. These are opinions. But you're just like, the nicest insurance policy ever.

Jason: 00:01:04

Every time I hear y' all say that, I always want to go, like, you do represent.

Becky: 00:01:08

I know, I know, I know. But it's just a little like, please.

Zer: 00:01:11

It is on builder podcast.

Becky: 00:01:12

Yes, yes, yes. But anyways, have you guys ever seen a miracle? Ever experienced?

Zer: 00:01:19

We got to give it to our guests.

Jason: 00:01:21

Yeah, no, I. I've experienced a miracle. And so, I mean, you guys know about it, but it was really long time in coming.

I think I'd been with other people who've experienced miracles who told me that, yeah, believed in miracles, but didn't know if I would ever experience one myself. You know, it's one of those weird things, like, you know, physician, heal thyself. I pray for myself, and nothing happens.

And it wasn't a moment where, like, it was in the middle of a prayer service, and I got anointed and prayed over, and immediately, like, I jump up from being paralyzed. But it was. It was a. A clear. I have from the doctor. I need surgery. And then a week later, I'm calling saying, cancel the surgery. I'm healed.

And so as clear as anything. So I. I had, you know, going back a little bit further.

I had a massive injury where my hamstring got severed from my hip bone, which was super ugly, that one. The miracle was God given me surgery with a doctor who could re anchor my hamstring back on.

And so that I got so much stronger did PT did all the Normal things you would think of. So God brought healing through doctors.

And then I started running again, which has always been my thing, and just a little bit off, you know, because of my hamstrings, a little shorter on one side. And so after running for, I don't know, maybe three months, I started having lower back pain.

And there was a moment when I was doing PT for my hamstring, and I felt a little click in my back. I didn't know what it was. And it was actually a disc getting ruptured, and so it poured out.

Apparently you have, like, fluid inside your discs, and it. It's like lava. So it poured out and hardened, and it hardened at a point, and it was hitting right on the nerve.

And so I walked into my doctor after months and months of PT and seeing doctors, but a specialist who, when he saw me standing up instead of sitting down, he goes, okay, I know exactly what's going on. You have a ruptured disc. It's this. And you can't sit for more than two minutes, can you? And I said, I cannot. And so he said, yeah, I've seen it.

Try this. We're going to try a steroid shot. If that doesn't work, we'll give it a couple of weeks, and then we'll have to do a microdiscectomy. That happened.

Shot. It got worse, and it got to the point where it's so excruciating. I'm collapsing. I can't even get out of bed. I can barely drive to the office.

I'm at restaurants kneeling instead of sitting because I can't sit down. Just horrible pain. Unbelievable pain. Like, worse than my hamstring.

Becky: 00:03:48

If I can pause this for a second, too, some context is we were there whenever you had your hammy injury. It was a distaff retreat. And, like, I just. I think after we.

Everyone realized, like, after you came back and you were like, this is actually what happened. We were all just like, your pain tolerance must be crazy, because, like, you didn't even yell. Like, he just literally just like. Do you remember?

Like, he just literally just like, he just, like, stood there and was like, something did something, and then that was it. Like, that was it.

Jason: 00:04:15

Yeah. And at that point, my hamstring was curled in a ball down below because it had severed off. And I thought, like, that feels super weird down there.

But, yeah, so I do have a pretty high pain tolerance for the most part. And so for it to be that excruciating, I went to the doctor and I'm begging Him like, cut whatever you have to cut off, do it.

I cannot, I cannot, I cannot go another day with this kind of thing. So I met with him on a Wednesday and we were trying to get that surgery for Friday and then insurance didn't come through.

Yeah, you remember me being really bitter. So, like, it's gonna be two weeks and I'm like, okay. I had to cancel a trip to the doctor. I was supposed to go on with Buckner. And I was just.

I was just angry at the time. And so that Wednesday we scheduled the surgery, that Thursday, I get told I can't have it. And I have the worst day of my life, pain wise.

And I'm just. And that's. I have a time with the Lord where he's basically saying, you got to trust me. I'm doing something in you. Stop asking me for to heal you.

Just trust me. And so I had to submit to the Lord and say, I trust you. I had the worst day ever. But I'm walking with you, Lord.

And then Friday morning I wake up and I'm sleeping on a pallet on the floor because it's the only place I can get any sleep. And I get up and for the first time my leg moves. My back doesn't hurt. And from that moment on, I haven't. It's been, wow, over a year and a half.

And my back has been free of that pain. So it was instantaneous, it was miraculous, inexplicable, but I got to experience it.

Becky: 00:05:42

Yeah.

Zer: 00:05:42

It's incredible.

Becky: 00:05:43

Yeah.

Zer: 00:05:44

Can you just kind of give us insight? Like, what did your prayer life look like during that time? Was it. Obviously there's a wave of emotions, maybe anger or.

Jason: 00:05:55

In the hurting time.

Zer: 00:05:56

In the hurting time, and then even in the God telling you, hey, you need to be patient and stop asking, like, what was that like?

Jason: 00:06:04

You know, I think this is the part that makes it so stinking confusing because, like, if I have faith the size of a mustard seed, I can move mountains. And I'm like, God, I think I believe. I really think I believe. I don't know why you're not healing me.

I'm exercising faith and I'm believing I'm seeing other people experience miracles, like, why not me? You know? And so there's doubt, there's frustration.

There are moments, like, in the dark recesses of my soul where I'm going, God, are you really there? I mean, is this stuff real here? I mean, I hear that it's real, but I'm not experiencing it. And the pain is so brutal. Life is so jacked up by this.

And it's a stinking little part of my backbone that's creating debilitating pain. And so. And when the Lord invited me to pray, don't ask me to heal you right now. Ask me to teach you. That was.

I was angry with God and I told him I was very honest, like, no, I'm not going to pray that, because I don't believe that. I don't want you to teach me. I want you to heal me. So I can't lie to you right now, God. I mean, you can see right through that.

And so it was a working on my heart in that moment. And one of the things I learned is, like, God is not afraid of my honest prayers, of my struggle with faith, of human emotion, of human emotion.

I don't have to act before him, like, oh, yes, Lord, I believe. I mean, it was some ugly cries, some ugly screams, some really hard moments. And I haven't all journaled out because I journal a lot in those times.

Still do. But, yeah. And so it wasn't a pretty kind of faith. In fact, I was shocked the next morning when I woke up like, you blessed that kind of faith.

I mean, I thought it. I thought it was going to feel better. I thought it was going to look better. I thought it was going to be, I don't know, more of a story.

Becky: 00:07:55

I can tell you were faithful.

Jason: 00:07:56

And then the Lord, and then in intense faith, what I was, was broken and desperate. And I said, whatever, Lord. Fine, you win. Don't heal me until you teach me what you want to teach me. Do any in me you want to do in me.

And then the rest of that, it wasn't even that moment, like, and I got up and everything was fine. It was a whole day of the worst pain I've had in my life. And then the next day, he heals me.

No prayer, no prayer gathering moment, Nobody anointing, no, like, you know, charismatic experience. I just. I'm on bed and on my bed I get up and I can walk. Like, you seriously healed me at night when I was sleeping.

Becky: 00:08:32

I mean, come on. Yeah, yeah.

Jason: 00:08:34

That could have been so much more dramatic.

Becky: 00:08:37

I also want to add to it, like, just the. Well, you mentioned it. Like, faith, like a mustard seed can move mountains.

Like, so I kind of just want to ask, like, does the quantity of your faith, like, how does one even measure faith in that sense? And does the quantity of faith truly matter? Because I have a story to share. So, you know, I think I might have shared this in our stories episode.

But one of. I don't know. My mom has always been like this amazing, devoted to Christ, like, loves Jesus. I grew up with her as my mom and she modeled faith.

But I just didn't believe for a long time. I didn't give my life over to Jesus until I was in my mid-20s. But I remember specifically one memory.

I never really doubted the existence of God because of this. Like, and I do believe it was a miracle. We were driving back from, you know, seeing my dad and we had a five hour, five to nine hour drive.

One of those two, like, a lot. And my mom hates driving at night. Like, it terrifies her. It's like her phobia almost.

And we were leaving that city a lot later than what we should have. And it was 100% going to be super pitch black by the time we got back. And she knew that.

And I remember we were all in the car and she was in the driver's seat and she was like, okay, everybody, bow your heads, we're gonna pray. And I was like. And just like, I was just like, oh, my gosh, like, I don't even want to do this.

Like, this is obviously gonna be dark, just get over it kind of thing. Just like, really? And I was a kid, like. But even then I just. My cynicism was just so deep in me.

And she prayed and I don't remember all of the prayer, and I remember it was in Spanish, but basically what I do remember is she prayed like, lord, please make the sun stand still. And I was just like, that's the. Like, I was just so even logical, like, about it. I was just like, that's so ridiculous.

Like, no, like, that won't happen. Like, that's ridiculous. Why would you even pray that? Like, just pray that you will overcome the fear. Like, pray something more realistic, you know?

And we got in the car and I remember we were driving and I was seeing the sun and it was like going down. And I was literally just staring at it. Like, it was almost like I had my faith was like waiting for her to fail. Like, waiting for it to come back.

Like, you see, like, he'd have answered you kind of thing. And I remember the sun like stopped and it just stopped going down. And like, I was just amazed. Like, I was just staring at it.

Like, no, like, come on, like, you want to keep going down. Like, what's wrong? And then we made it back to the house and the sun had just now started to set, like, at that point. And so Like, I.

In my mind, like, it stayed in the same place for, like, hours.

And I remember getting back at the house and getting out of the car and, like, looking at the sun, and I was just like, mom, like, it, it's just now setting. What happened? And she was like, well, we prayed to the Lord and he answered. And I credit that specific memory to the only reason why I never doubted.

I never wrestled with whether or not God existed. I always knew that he did. And I credit that miracle. But that wasn't even based on my faith. And yet I was the beneficiary of it.

It was on my mom's faith. And so just like, I don't know, what kind of faith does it take to kind of experience even anything like that?

Jason: 00:11:31

Something I've been actually chewing on a ton lately.

And it was actually, I was reviewing one of Dalen's messages because we were doing a mentorship thing together, and he just brought this idea up that I was talking back and forth with him about. But I think, I think we totally misunderstand the word faith. And, and because of it, we don't.

We don't know what to do with, like, the size of faith, because faith is a noun. So it's like almost like it's an object that has to have a size to it.

When I think the much more biblical idea is faith as a verb, belief is the noun. And so faith is belief in action. So faith always has a movement component to it.

And so, you know, Indiana Jones in the Last Crusade, and he's got to take that step over and he can't see it. And it looks like he's about to step into the great abyss. And did he have a lot of faith to take that step or a little bit of faith?

Well, if, if it's belief, he has no idea what's going to happen. He's scared to death. He puts his foot out there.

If faith is action, whether he felt confident or not, he had the same amount of faith because it moved. And so if faith is movement towards something that you believe in, then the size of it is just the action.

And so whether I'm trembling as I take my step or I'm totally confident as I take my step, it doesn't change the level of my faith because the faith was the step. And so I think the question is the size of our faith is do we obey what we believe God is calling us to?

So in that moment, for me, on my bedside, as I'm crying out to the Lord and I'm Wrestling. All I say. All I do is I say something.

I say, God, don't heal me until you've done everything you want to do in me and taught me everything you want to teach me. That was my step, to declare that I did it with trembling and with frustration and anger. So did I have real strong belief? Maybe not. Did I have faith?

Yes, because I took the step and I prayed, and I think the Lord responded to that. I think about the centurion who comes to Jesus or wouldn't even, you know, like, sends others, but, like, just come heal my servant.

So the faith step was taking the action to say, y' all go talk to him and ask him to come to. To heal my son from a distance. I know you can do this. I'm a man under authority. I know the faith step was to say, I'm going to set this in motion.

Or the dad, the officer, or the official whose son was ill. And he went to Jesus, said, come heal my son. And Jesus said, you know, you need to see. He's always going to see signs. And he said, please, he's going to die. And Jesus said, go.

Your son will live. And immediately he went. He walked. And as he was going, his servants came to him and told him that his son was recovering.

And he said, well, when did he begin to get better? And they said, yesterday, the seventh hour. The fever left him.

And he says the father knew that was the hour when Jesus said to him, your son will live. And he himself believed in all his household. Well, the faith step was to not badger Jesus anymore. But Jesus said, your son will live.

And he went that step. That was the size of his faith. So I think about your mom right there. Like, she drove.

Becky: 00:14:36

Yeah.

Jason: 00:14:37

And she prayed and she drove. That was the faith step. That's. That's faith. That's the same size of faith. Whether she's feeling great about it or whether she's going.

I have no idea if it's going to get dark or not, but I'm. I'm trusting. So I think if we looked at faith differently, I think we would. We wouldn't. We would measure it differently.

Becky: 00:14:52

That's good.

Zer: 00:14:52

That's incredible.

Becky: 00:14:53

That's good.

Zer: 00:14:54

I never thought about it.

Becky: 00:14:55

I know. Me neither. I didn't even.

Zer: 00:14:57

In that type of way.

Becky: 00:14:57

Yeah. Yeah. Well. And I also kind of want to add, too, like, about how does prayer, you know, kind of play a factor in it?

Because, again, my mom's prayer was, like, very, very. It was fear, like, I remember. Like, her. Like, her voice was like shaking. And it was just very fear based. And even times where I've prayed.

And it doesn't have to be about miracles, just like anything in general. Like, you know, the posture of prayer.

And I think, like, also, we also want to resist the temptation to only pray whenever we need something from God. I remember my mom used to tell me that a lot like, God is not a genie. Like, it's not just a lamp that you rub and get what you want.

Like, and so just I want to, I want to, you know, hold that with, against that tension. But also just the reality of like, what should our posture of in prayer look like?

Jason: 00:15:46

Yeah, I think there's different kinds of prayer. And I think that's another thing that we've got to get comfortable with.

I think you have a warfare kind of prayer where you're going up into the heavenly places and you are in Christ Jesus at the right hand of the Father. And there's the courtroom scene and you are coming before the Father, asking him to do something.

And these heavenly decisions affect earthly realities. So strongholds are broken. This is the warring with divine weapons of warfare. So there's that kind of prayer.

I do think there's the desperation kind of prayer, which is like, I'm just in need and I can't. But you can, God. So I'm trusting you. Which is a, that's faith, and that's faith as an action like that.

The act of praying is saying, I could try to solve this by myself or I'm gonna, I'm gonna put it in your hands. So I think that's a kind.

I also think, and, and if I were guessing, like, this is, I'm totally making this up on the spot, but percentages, but like, you know, maybe 10% of my prayer time is at warfare in the heavenly courtroom. Maybe, you know, 2 to 3%, maybe even 1%. Is that like flare prayer? And I'm desperate. I need you.

And then like 90 to 95% of prayer should be abiding prayer, and abiding prayer is not. I don't want anything from you, God. I just want you. I want to be in your presence.

Because at the end of the day, it's Moses going, listen, if you don't go with us to the promised land, don't give us the promised land, because we don't want it if you're not in it. I want you. You're the prize. You're the goal.

And so I think if you have a, a massively steady diet of abiding prayer and you begin to know the father's heart because you're just sitting with him and spending time with him. Then those that warfare moment or even the like flare prayer. And I need you right now.

I think there's an effectiveness because of I'm not getting something from you, God, you're not my genie that I'm trying to rub. If you don't give me anything else and you give me yourself, then you've given me everything that I could possibly want.

If that's like the majority of your diet, like, yeah, you can have Some M&Ms, you can have a cookie every once in a while, but. But this is the meat and potatoes and the salad. Salad.

Becky: 00:17:55

They were going to say low carb. The low carb lifestyle is over here.

Jason: 00:17:58

Yeah. The bulk of your diet should be.

Becky: 00:18:01

Yeah, yeah.

Zer: 00:18:02

I want to ask very practically, like if you're saying bulk prayer is abiding prayer, this is the steady diet, what does that look like? What does that look like for you personally in your time with the Lord?

And then what do you think that could look like for somebody who might want to explore? I mean, really taking listening to this episode and saying, hey, I want to put this into practice myself.

Jason: 00:18:26

Yeah, that's a great question. So I'll tell you my practice and disclaimer.

It's not everybody, you know, it's a reminder, you know, by the grace of God, I am unbelievably blessed that my job is the ministry of the church. And so the church gives me a lot more latitude.

Like they're not disgruntled if I show up to the office late because I've been on my knees praying and spending time with the Lord. Like, they're my pastor's advisory council. If they hear I spend five hours in prayer in the morning, they're like, praise God, keep doing that.

They're not like, what do you mean? You showed up the office at noon. So it's different. And I get that. But I've had to go on a massive journey of discovering what abiding prayer is.

Probably should just listen to Clyde a long time ago. Teach me. I'm thick headed though. I got to figure this stuff out on my own.

And so when I first tried to figure out so I had a crisis moment in my life where the Lord really had to shock my heart back up and invite me to lead different, to follow different, to preach different, to do everything differently, to do it from a place of abiding prayer, not from my own gumption or work or ability. And so that's my prayer journey has been a shift over the last, really, the last five years, four to five years.

And so when I really stepped into this, I felt the Lord saying, I want you to pray hours a day, not minutes a day. And so my first thought back to the Lord was like, what do I do for hours a day?

Becky: 00:19:48

Where am I going to find the time?

Jason: 00:19:49

How do you, how do you, yeah, even before, where do I find the time? If I had the time, what would I do? That, that sounds horrible. Like just sitting there going, like, run out of things to pray?

Do I just go through the list again? You know what counts and what doesn't count. If I'm reading my Bible, well, that doesn't sound like that's prayer, so that must not be prayer.

But I know that's God's word, so he's speaking to me. So does that count? Does that not count if I'm reading a devotional book? If I'm journaling, do I have to write out prayer requests?

Or can it be different? What if I'm praying and I fall asleep? Do I have to deduct the time that I slept and then come back in? Like that's like what counts and what doesn't.

And the thing the Lord has been releasing me on is that if I'm seeking Him, stop thinking this counts and this doesn't count because he owns it all. And so that's given me a lot of freedom to say. Abiding with you just means sitting with you.

And one of the things I have discovered for me personally, for anybody who wants to grow abiding, the sweetest four letter word to Almighty God is T I M E. Time to linger in his presence. Nothing honors God more than saying, you matter more than everything else. So I, I sit in journal at the same place in my backyard.

I have a, a screened in porch that overlooks my, my backyard. And unless it's freezing, I'll be out there with a blanket on or sweating with a fan going like, I'm going to be outside, sit with the Lord.

My kids will wake up and they'll come, they'll give me a hug. I have one daughter who always sit in my lap for a little bit. I'll give her two or three minutes and we'll cuddle.

And then I'm like, all right, baby, that is that he's spending time with Jesus. And it's a. They know it. We all know this is going to be my time where I'm lingering in his presence and He Gets full priority.

I don't plan breakfast meetings. I don't plan early things at all. Becky knows this. Like, don't. Don't have anything in the morning time. Because I don't ever want to rush the Lord.

And that's when I hear him the most, when I'm not. Every time I got to catch a plane or I got to do something else, I'm all right. Come on, Lord. Come on, give me something. I never hear from the Lord.

So that lingering with the Lord is what has been the most important. Like, you are my priority, God. And it's something in marriage, too.

Like, if I'm spending time with my wife and I tell her, hurry up, woman, let's have some deep time. First of all, my wife would slap me in the face.

Zer: 00:22:07

Doesn't go well.

Jason: 00:22:08

Secondly, it won't accomplish what I want. And she's got a slap. Let me tell you, my face is still recovering. I'm just kidding, baby.

You know, so from what I do in the morning time is I always start with the Word. And I. I go between just getting my nerd on right now, but, like, I'm. I'm going to get into translating the scriptures, moving super slow.

So two or three verses in the morning, and I'll do a couple of chapters that, you know, chapters will take weeks because I'm going so slow in the Old Testament. I'm in Zechariah right now. Incredible. Some of the stuff in there. And then I'll go do two chapters in the New Testament.

And I'm my second way through the New Testament. So I'm in the book of Revelation, which has got some fire in there, too. And so I just. I'm. I am just zeroing down super slow.

Every word, every verb, parsing it out, conjugating it, looking at every bit of it. Because that. That feeds my soul. Yeah, some people that would kill them feeds my soul.

So I have about 30 minutes where I'm doing that, and then I'll have some time where I'm doing more of like, praying for my lost neighbors, engaging in more list kind of prayer, mainly evangelistic kind of prayer. And that's. That's short. That's five, ten minutes max.

And then I'll have about 30 minutes of reading some type of devotional book, usually on prayer or leadership or the Word or something like that. And that's about a little hour, hour and 15 of that.

But the most meaningful time for me is I'll get my journal and my pen and I go to the backyard Got my cup of coffee, and I'm just sitting with the Lord, And I start my journal off every time the exact same way. I'm a creature of habit anyway, but good morning, Lord. That's the first thing I always write to him.

And then I do a gratitude portion at first to say, here are all the things that. And I'll spend 15 to 30 minutes just saying, thank you for this, thank you for this, thank you for this.

And there are times where I'm going, I don't even know what to thank you for right now, oh, God, open my eyes so I can even see. And then he will. And then I'll spend another 15 to 30 minutes on thinking about what I'm thinking about in that moment.

Like, what's pressing my heart this morning. Last night at the prayer gathering, I wrote the confession questions, and then they slapped me all up in the fail. Angry with myself.

My own confession questions. But one of them about what false beliefs do you have?

And so one of them for me was this false belief that I'll never be good enough as a pastor, as a husband, as a father. Like, it's just this belief I know is from the enemy, not from the Lord.

But, like, sooner or later, everybody's gonna find out you're not really as good as you think you are. And so I'm writing that out. I'm sitting here going, I'm angry with myself. Why do I have this belief? Where's it coming from?

And I thought, the Lord's saying, take it before me. So this morning I have that, and I write it out and go, all right, Lord, let's wrestle.

And I'm just wrestling with my thoughts, with the Lord, and we're having conversation. He's course correcting me. He's calling out sin. He's redirecting me.

He's saying, hey, the whole reason I called you to lead this church is because you're not good enough. You have to know that. And then you have to trust my call. And so, you know, he's speaking to me, and it's deep, and I'm just.

And sometimes it's never audible, but I'm hearing the Lord. I'm writing feverishly. And sometimes I'm talking back to God. Like, he's sitting because he's there. I mean, I can feel his presence.

I can hear the thoughts coming from him. And so we have a great time. And then I'll move on. That's. That's already been, like, 30 minutes to an hour.

And then I'll move On to scripture memorization. God is speaking to me through that. And so I'm in the process of memorizing biggest portion of scripture I've ever memorized before.

But I do it one verse at a time. And so I'm. I'll take. I'll review maybe 10 to 15 verses and write them out and then add the next verse.

And then, you know, every week I kind of scoot it down and I keep doing that, and that's going to be another 15 to 20 minutes. And then I do the last part, which is my daily assignment. Lord Holy Spirit, I'm presenting my body to you. What do you want me to do?

What's your assignment for me? And I'm listening. And then God tells me, and I try to obey, and that's. That'll take two, sometimes three hours to do that.

Becky: 00:26:12

Yeah, I. I also kind of want to speak to you said something earlier, and I think this is a good place to start about, like, how the Lord. I don't know, just like our prayers can. Can do things, can move the heart of God. And so, you know, my flesh. Part of me is like, how, like, why?

The Lord is like sovereign. He is like Lord over all things. Like, why. Why should I even value prayer? Like, he know, like Scripture talks about, like, he knows the words on your.

On your tongue before you even speak them. So, like, why should I even take time? Or like, what. What's the value in it? What's the point? Like, how can I convince the Lord to do anything?

Jason: 00:26:54

First of all, I love that you're quoting the Sermon on the Mount. Way to go. Yeah. So, yeah. Do not heap up empty words of the Gentiles, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

Becky: 00:27:03

Right?

Jason: 00:27:03

And then it says, pray then like this. So it says, don't heap up empty words. He already knows what you need, therefore, pray.

And so, like, even Jesus who's teaching this isn't disqualifying prayer because the Father knows what you need, but it does say, okay, well, maybe I've misunderstood prayer. Prayer is not telling God what I need. Like, God, you didn't know. I know.

Let me go ahead and tell you what I need so you can answer it and catch up with me because I'm ahead of you. That's not. But we view prayer that way, like prayer lists. And that's why abiding is so important.

So maybe the easiest way that I've been able to understand this is make a confession here. First of all, I'm confessing. I do not have a favorite child. I just want that to be clear. I want my.

If my children watch this and listen to this, I want them to know I absolutely do not have a favorite child. I love all six of my children equally. I want that to be very clear.

Becky: 00:28:03

Got it.

Jason: 00:28:04

I have one child who positions herself to receive my love more than any of my other children. One of my children is a daddy's girl. And anytime I enter the room, she will come running from whatever room she's.

Becky: 00:28:18

At going, daddy, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy.

Jason: 00:28:20

And will embrace me and won't let me walk. She'll just. I'm like, baby, come on. I got. I gotta go put my backpack down. Baby, come on. Every morning, my other kids will pop out and go, hey, Daddy.

Because I'm out there journaling. She will come out and she will sit in my lap and wait until I tell her, okay, baby, you need to go back inside. Like, she will not.

We go sit at the table. She's supposed to be eating her meal. She go, daddy, can I sit in your lap? Eat your meal first, baby. When you're done, then you can come.

We go sit down and watch a show. And she immediately, she's gonna be in my lap. And she's frustrated when her sister wants to sit in my lap instead of her.

And so, the truth be told, she gets a lot of my love and affection because she just keeps positioning herself to receive it.

I tell my other kids, even my son Max, you sit in my lap, I'll hug you all up, kiss you, and you'll get a lot of affection from me because I'm ready to give it. But she sits in my lap and she seeks me out and she pursues me. She declares, if she's hurt, this is my hunger.

My only kid who'll do this if she gets hurt. If her mama's in front, she'll walk right past her mama and come to me. And all the other ones, they will go to mama first for sure.

And I question the intelligence of this one for mommy, because she knows what to do and I don't. But she just loves me so much that she's going to be with me.

So she gets a lot of my affection that I offer to all my children, but she positions herself to receive it. And so that's why they're all jealous. Because, like, will, you sit in my lap? You'll get a tick.

This is where abiding we're not convincing God to do what he wasn't already going to do. He is sovereign. He knows what he's doing, his will is perfect before the foundation of the world. He has it all mapped out for us.

But there are people who position themselves to receive his affection, to receive his power, to receive familiarity with him, that align their wills to him. And so now you're praying with the will of God, and my heart and heart is keeping me praying from the will of God.

And you're seeing God move in power, and it just looks like you got a bat line to him. And you're his favorite. And I'm over here going, I'm praying just as much as she is. Why am I not seeing?

Well, maybe, maybe Becky sat in the lap of the Father more than Jason sat in the lap of the Father.

And so she's receiving the power and the affection and the results of that, because the Father's giving what he would have given to anybody who sat in his lap. So when you.

That's why 90, 95% is that sitting in the lap of the Father, just being with him, being real with him, being angsty with him, doting on him, thanking him, loving him, you know, I healed ten of you. Only one of you came back. Were not nine others healed, but. But the one that Jesus was, he wanted the other nine to come back, and they didn't.

So those who choose to come back to show gratitude, to be with him, they experience the affection and the power and the work of God more than others.

Not because their prayers are more precise or more theologically accurate or they have some bat line, but because they have sat in the lap of the Father and they're receiving that affection.

Becky: 00:31:15

Yeah, that's good.

Zer: 00:31:16

Yeah. I'm trying to connect the two thoughts that we just talked about. Like, you talked about time as an aspect of really connecting to the other thought.

Is the sitting in the lap abiding, being with Him. What do you say to the person who is just busy?

Maybe they don't get the privilege of, you know, two to three hours of just really sitting at the feet of Jesus in his lap. But, like, maybe they just have 10 minutes here, 15 minutes there, 30 minute break.

Becky: 00:31:46

Like.

Zer: 00:31:48

What'S your encouragement for that?

Becky: 00:31:49

I love that question. Because I feel like that we hear so much, not just those who are, like, in ministry or, like, but even just in general. Like, with what time?

Like, where am I gonna spend two hours? Like, I don't even have time to sleep. Like, I barely sleep.

Like, I have a newborn baby crying, or I have to take all these kids to school, or, like, I'm, you know, doing all these things for King Jesus, like, I don't have time. Like, yeah, I love. Thank you for asking that. And I'm really excited to hear your response.

Jason: 00:32:14

Yeah. So just, just know my heart when I say that. And I'm going to say to, to those people out there, not to you.

Becky: 00:32:22

Or.

Jason: 00:32:24

You make time for what you. What matters to you. You sing that song like it is the biggest cop out in the world to say I'm. I'm too busy.

Because we have structured our life around the things that matter to us. Yeah. And if he is not in there, we have said with our actions, he. He's not really that important because if we did.

And I'm going to be really honest, like, the number one fear I had of stepping into this prayer life was like, God, I don't know if you. You saw this, but I'm the pastor of a mega church. Like, those are pretty busy people.

I'm already stinking it up at replying to emails and text messages, and I could use twice the amount of time on my sermons. And I've got people that need counseling. And I got, I got other things I'm invited to go speak at. I could be working on the kingdom.

God, I ain't got time for this. Like, yeah, sure, Martin Luther could do it because that brother didn't have electricity. But, like, now we got, like, it's.

I'm expected to be on point all the time, and I'm supposed to be posting on social media. Like, I literally. The Lord invited me completely off of social media when I know that diminishes my platform in some way.

And the Lord at the end of the day is going, like, you choose. You can have me or you can have a platform. And you might not be able to have both.

Zer: 00:33:37

Yeah.

Jason: 00:33:38

And, you know, we've talked about this before, but one of the ways the Lord has helped me conceptualize it is that the things the Lord wants to do, he gets done when we sit at his feet. It's the Mary, Martha and Martha, Martha, you're worried about all these things. You're so busy trying to make everything perfect.

But Mary's chosen the better portion. She's sitting at my feet. I'm not going to take it away from her. That's the better portion, sitting at the feet. And I think at the.

I think by the time we stand before Jesus, we're not going to go. I wish I had spent more time doing these other things.

I think we're going to be so grateful for how well we knew the Father, how well we knew the Son, how well we knew the Spirit, by the time we spent all eternity with the Holy Trinity.

Becky: 00:34:21

Yeah.

Jason: 00:34:21

And we're preparing because that is eternal life is being with Him. And so I just think everything else should flow from that. And so I've used the illustration before. Y' all have heard it.

But, like, you know, sometimes we work our tails off because we think it's our effort that's going to open the doors that we want open or need open for the sake of ministry. There's a hundred doors, there's 100 keys. And I could just work my tail off and go, door one, key one. Nope. Key two, key three, key four.

And I work all the way to key 74. That opens it. I open the door and, nope, wrong door, door number two. Key one, key two, key three.

And I could spend days and months trying to open it, or I could sit at the feet of Jesus, be there for two hours, and he says, it's door 84. It's key 14. And I walk up there and I'll open it up and go right through.

What the Lord has, He can do more in two hours of prayer than I can do in two years of work. And if I don't actually believe that, then I'm going to work my tail off and say, I don't have time to pray.

But if I believe that God has all power and walking in step with his spirit and abiding with him will either say, don't waste my time with things that don't matter because the Lord's saying, I'm not in that, or I'll tell you what to do, when to do it, and that's what I'm gonna bless, then it makes sense to me to abide in him.

And if the end of the day, people think I'm a slug that doesn't do anything, and I don't ever, I'm not ever the most successful business person, or I don't ever win that award. I don't ever make that money. I don't ever accomplish that.

I've never known beyond this small little place called Field and Church, where people but no. No one knows my name, but. But my kids have a daddy who loves them, who they saw.

Seek after Jesus, where my life is not in shambles because I'm walking at the pace the Spirit has for me, which is pole, pole. Slowly, slowly. Walk at my pace, slowly. Be with me. Find delight in me. If I lose all those things and I gain the world, I've lost my Soul.

And so that's where I think at the end of the day, you're going to make time for what matters. And if you have faith to believe that all the reward is in Jesus, not what you get from Jesus, then you're going to abide with him. Yeah, that's good.

Becky: 00:36:21

Yeah. I love that you're saying that. I'm going to pull up a verse. So the Lord has been bringing Psalm 73, like, the last couple days.

And I'm not going to lie to you, I'm going to confess, like, maybe, like the last couple weeks, my. Like, I've just been really wrestling with a lot of things like discouragement or, you know, whatever have you.

And my prayer time was, you know, reflecting that, like, was my. My prayer time was a reflection of my discouragement as opposed to my prayer time, you know, helping the Lord speak to my discouragement.

And so which is usually a formula that I think is pretty common for a lot of people to fall into. And the Lord convicted me and challenged me. And there was a.

There's a verse in Psalm 73 that talks about when my heart was grieved and my spirit embittered. I was senseless and ignorant, and I was a brute beast before you, yet I am always with you.

You hold me by my right hand, and you guide me with your counsel, and afterward you will take me into glory. Whom have I in heaven but you and earth has nothing that I desire besides you.

And my flesh and my heart may fail, but God is my strength of my heart and my portion forever. And that just, like, really spoke to me. And the Lord used that to, like, you know, speak so much light and refreshment to my spirit.

But it's like, I could have gone to, you know, had 75 sessions of counseling, could have spent all these times doing the fun things that I, like, could have spent seven days straight of sleep. But the Lord was able to use His Word, and he spoke through, like, to me through His Word.

And that was only something that I was able to give because I made time and just even thinking about it, like, you know, no one has to put a gun to my head for me to spend time with Carlos, my husband. Like, no one has to do that. Like, no one has to force me or, like, shove me into spending time with him. I love it because I love him.

I love his company. Like, he, you know, refreshes me and encourages me, and he loves me. And I have no doubt in that. Like, I'm confident in that love. And so I just.

I Think it.

I think the Lord has also had me, like, speak to that or just the thought of, like, anything good in me is a reflection of the Lord, and anything good in Carlos is a reflection of the Lord. And so just even like, that, I don't. I don't have to schedule time with Carlos.

Like, it just comes naturally, but it's also because I fight for it and because I look for pockets for it. But do. Does my time with the Lord reflect that? Like, does it reflect the same level of confidence in that love that he has for me?

Does it reflect that same level of humility that I know that I need that time with him? Like, I don't know. And so I've just been really wrestling with that.

Jason: 00:38:59

Yeah, I'm just. I'm super curious because you said something that sparked my. My mind, like, which one comes first, the chicken or the egg?

Is it discouragement that leads to prayerlessness? Is it prayerlessness that leads to discouragement? Obviously, it's a bit of both, but, like, as people wrestle with that, like, what. What drives what.

Becky: 00:39:18

For me, it's always prayerlessness before the discouragement, because I think the. It's almost like the Lord is able to catch. To stop that wheel before it gets enough momentum to go, like, going down the hill.

And so for me, it's always like, I'm not being. I'm not fighting for what's important. And, like, I've let my schedule speak to my time. And so.

And then I think because of prayerlessness, discouragement is easier because, you know, the. You know, the. I'm just. I'm just thinking of the parable of, like, the seeds that get planted on.

And I know that that's referencing to salvation, but that's just the visual that I have about, like, that, you know, the sun comes and scorches it before it's able to take take root. And, you know, birds come and, like, take the seeds away. And so, like, there's. There's.

Things are quicker to discourage me because my life hasn't been. I'm not giving the Lord time or the space to speak to that.

And then the moment when I do, there's some times where I am discouraged, and I'm sharing certain things with him. Like, I think, for example, the most recent discouragement that I've been facing is I had an emergency surgery two months ago, and it was crazy.

Like, it. You know, it just happened so fast, and I feel like I had already. I had just gone to a place of, like, okay, my health is great. Like, Okay.

I feel so much better now. And then, like, boom, Shocking.

And then I feel like also, the Lord tailored it for it to be an emergency, like, because I had a CAT scan on Wednesday, and they were like, everything looks good. You're awesome. Like, everything's perfect. And then Friday, I'm in the emergency room, and so it's just, like. It was just.

It was perfect, like, to be set aside as, like, a freak accident. Like, the doctors couldn't explain it. Nothing.

And so I had the surgery, and then, you know, a mission trip that we've been, you know, prepared and excited for for over a year. Couldn't go to that. You know, a lot of fun things I couldn't step into. And it was super discouraging. And I was just like, God, like, why?

Like, what am I doing wrong? Like, what. What is happening? Like, and so there was just.

I think a lot of discouragement came from that because I was just like, I'm doing everything right, and yet the things are still, like, I'm treating. I feel like I'm the healthiest I've ever been, but my body doesn't seem to know that it still is. Like, oh, yeah, the. This is.

This is the time for everything to be hard. And so I think that was a lot of discouragement, which is super valid.

And I feel like a lot of people have illnesses, like, you know, ailments, whatever it might be. Like, there's just a lot of things that feel like they're out of your control. And I think the Lord has spoken to it before, and he just.

I needed to give him space to remind me of that. I don't require a healthy body for him to still be good. And I don't, like, he can be still a healer and not heal me.

And that is something that I continuously had to wrestle with. But again, like, my portion is not a healthy body. I'm not entitled to that. I'm not entitled to, you know, any of these things.

The Lord is my portion forever, and he's the strength of my heart. And so, like, he. Like, it was just like this. You know, he spoke to me so clearly through his word.

And I've read that song before, like, and it was crazy. Is that those.

Those verses I had previously underlined and highlighted and put notes on the side, but reading it in that mindset that I was in spoke to me completely different. And so, yeah, I don't even remember where we were before this conversation.

Jason: 00:42:42

What do you think?

Zer: 00:42:42

Well, sorry, but on that note, as soon as she was reading that passage, it reminded me of a song. Do you know the song? Which one? God is the strength of my heart. God is the strength.

Jason: 00:42:56

No.

Zer: 00:42:57

Hey, sorry, I'm old.

Jason: 00:42:58

Is that the chorus?

Zer: 00:42:59

Yeah, it's like 90s or something.

Jason: 00:43:01

Maybe a Matt Hunter, like, wave one.

Zer: 00:43:05

But it was like, I don't know in that.

Jason: 00:43:08

It.

Zer: 00:43:09

First of all, that's one. One thing, it just reminded me so much of that song. But secondly, I think for me, I do the same.

Honestly, I learned it from you and just the journey that you've been on. Journaling.

And if I go back in my journaling and if I look at the dates and I look at the times that I was with the Lord, I do notice a trend that when I let the busyness of life, when I let really, really. It's time. It is time. It's like I am pretty disciplined as well. Like, morning times are my time that I meet with the Lord.

Like, I do it before our kids get up.

And in the seasons that I don't keep that discipline up is the moments where I find myself struggling, angry at God, bitter like, but coincides with a lot of things that I see in my life that. Where either I'm discouraged or I'm just. Yeah, that's what I'm discovering of myself. So I just.

Jason: 00:44:09

I feel like it's. It's like there's a cyclical side to it. So little bit of discouragement makes me less inclined to pray, and so I don't.

Which lets discouragement increase. And so it starts off small and it does this and it's bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, and then it's spiraling out of control.

Becky: 00:44:24

It's just. The picture that I have is just someone throwing a tire down a mountain. Like, it's like, it's already big, it's already massive.

It's already going to cause some damage, like, to the. To the grass.

But, like, when you push it and it starts gaining that momentum and there's no one there to stop it, no one's strong enough to stop it, it's just going to keep going. And by the time it reaches the bottom, like, rfp, whoever's at the bottom of that mountain, you know, like.

Jason: 00:44:43

Yeah. Yeah.

Zer: 00:44:44

So what's been your.

Jason: 00:44:46

If.

Zer: 00:44:46

If that's the cycle for you, what has been the. That's stopping us?

Jason: 00:44:51

Well, that's what I was going to. I'm glad you brought it back up because you. You mentioned something. I think people sometimes take it the wrong way. Like, I don't.

I don't have to schedule time with Carlos because, like, I'm. I'm going to be with him. And so people can conclude I shouldn't have to schedule time with God because, you know, obviously.

So I got six kids, I got a busy life. I have to schedule time with my wife. If I don't, we will not survive the craziness of life. And so we schedule time, and we do it often.

And it's this weird. Is my wife my best friend and that's why I want to spend time with her, or is she my best friend because I have spent so much time with her?

You know, obviously there's a bit of both, but I think it's more the latter. Like, I think she has become my best friend more and more because I spend so much time with her.

And we've grown so familiar, and we've been through so much together, and we love each other. And so I think the exact same thing is true with God.

Like, I have never, ever been more desirous of his presence, more in love with him as the infinite one, more inclined to.

Like, I go on vacation, we're in the beach, and I'm gonna wake up before everybody else, and I'm gonna spend a couple of hours with the Lord before my kids even wake up. And I could sleep in. I don't want to sleep. It's not like I'm, like, I'm going to be super disciplined, Jason. I'm going to, like, I want.

I'm hungry to get up and be with the Lord. And I think it's because I've been with him for hours and hours every day, and he gets more and more glorious the more time I spend with Him.

So, like, it's not even discipline for me right now. And I'm a disciplined person. It's desire. It's yearning. Like, I'm. I get my happiest place. I was journaling about this this morning.

My happiest place in the world is my back porch when I'm journaling and I'm talking to the Lord And I'm a social person. I like being around people, and that's me and the Lord alone. And I think it's because that has been the structure early on.

It's a discipline every day I'm not going to miss. And then it becomes desire. And so I think because of that, the snowball doesn't, like, take down the mountain and get huge, or the tire doesn't.

It's stopped immediately because I am going to be with the Lord every Morning, no matter what.

Becky: 00:46:53

Yeah. I have a follow up question to that. That's super great. And I agree. I think you did me and Carlos's premarital.

One of the things that you said was like, have a weekly date night, like, you know, make sure that you make time, that you're protective of it. And I think that I agree.

And like, so I think just the built in rhythms of like, this is the slot that I am going to be super protective of and I'm not going to allow anything to come in between that. And so I think that's super important. Does it have to be in the morning? Can it be at night? Can it, what about like, can you be driving?

Or like, can it be at the gym when you're cooking? Like, does it have to be like I had this specific chair, the specific corner, and I think for some people that works.

But does it have to look like that.

Jason: 00:47:41

Excel. I'm going to tell you my thoughts on that. And I do not represent filler church when I say this. So here's, here's my gut reaction to it.

I think people look for the lowest threshold that they have to do to say, am I being intimate with you, God? It's like obedience. What's the lowest amount? I have to obey to be right with you so I can be blessed by you. And I'm looking for that threshold.

And I don't think that honors God if the goal is t I m e and lingering with him. I don't think you can be driving in the car and say, I have a vibrant prayer life.

I don't think it could be an on the go relationship with God and he's honored by it. And I think, and I'm getting real practical here, I do a lot of marital counseling and it's one of the heaviest things I do.

And too often I see a couple who try to do their marriage in the busyness of life. And they said, well, as we go to games, as we do this, as we do that, we're together so we're fine.

And they didn't ever say no, it's just you and me, baby. We're going to spend time, we're going to connect. It's not because of anything else. It's just you and me. And it leads to brokenness and divorce.

And I think the exact same thing is true with God.

If we try to shove God into our already busy life and just come with me, God, as I go to work, as I do this, as I do that, and that's All I need then I don't think that it will produce the lingering that honors the Lord. Now, whether it needs to be the morning or the nighttime, I hear that people are wired differently, and I guess I believe it, but, you know, I.

Becky: 00:49:18

Hear that people are wired.

Jason: 00:49:20

I struggle to believe it, but, you know, I think the best time, I think the. The greatest would be in the morning. I linger with him. In the midday, I linger with him. In the afternoon, I linger with him.

At the nighttime, I linger with him. Do I do that? No. I still have a lot to grow in. So could it be that I've mastered the morning, but I fell at the night? You know, it's possible.

And so could it be that somebody else masters the night and not the morning? Yeah, I think it's possible. But to miss the morning, I think is a major loss. So that's my answer.

Becky: 00:49:58

No. And I do agree with you. I think also, it just kind of, yes, like, on the go relationships. Like, that's just kind of like.

I think you're speaking to the value of that person unintentionally. Like, you might not be meaning to, but I think you can pray at the gym. You can listen to your podcast.

You can, you know, do all those things, but I think those should supplement what you already have in place. And so, you know, like, me and Carlos have our date nights, but obviously you can't sustain a marriage on once a week. And so, like, there are.

There are times where we fight to connect during the week where we mainly.

Jason: 00:50:27

I think most of the times you fight. I'm like, come on, let's talk about this stuff. Let's do some marital counseling.

Becky: 00:50:31

Yeah, we schedule our fights just to be efficient with our time.

Jason: 00:50:36

Anyways, next level.

Becky: 00:50:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, yeah, we just. We schedule that time. We fight for it, we prioritize it. But, for example, like, he's obsessed with the gym. He's super disciplined.

He's a lot like you in that. Like, I just.

Jason: 00:50:48

He's not obsessed.

Becky: 00:50:51

He is so disciplined. It's, like, so frustrating sometimes. And, like, he loves going to the gym. Like, it's like, one of the things that he enjoys. He.

It's refreshing to him. You have to drag me, like, to the gym, and it's a whole thing.

And I remember one time early on when we were getting married, I was like, why do you always want me to go to the gym with you? Like, you just go. And he was like, you're. You don't have to come. But, like, you're my wife. And I. I enjoy your company.

And so, like, I want you to come with me. And. And that just kind of changed your perspective for me.

Like, I was like, oh, Like, I. I didn't realize that it was also like, yeah, I'm going to go to the gym. That's super great. But a bonus is that I get to spend time with you and my wife and, like, you know, get. We get to talk as we're doing it.

And so, I don't know.

Jason: 00:51:31

You have no idea, though, how good an illustration of prayer that is, because the Father is saying, hey, I'm doing something and I just want you to come join me. I'm saving that person. And I just want you to be with me while I'm doing. Just come with me right now. You don't have to.

I mean, I'll save them without you, but I'm inviting you because I love you and I want to be with you. Or I'm doing this ministry, I'm on this mission trip over here, and I just delight. I want you to come with me. Like, that's so much a prayer.

You discover what the heart of the Father is and you see him going, come, come sit in my lap, and then come with me as I go over here and do this. And it really is a picture of how the Father works.

Becky: 00:52:06

Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. And so I think all those things, like, your prayer life shouldn't be. You shouldn't cater your prayer life to your schedule.

I think it, like, your schedule needs to reflect your already established prayer time. And this is something that I'm, like, still developing and, like, speaking to myself.

And again, like, as I can see, the continuous correlations of, like, oh, so that's when I started skipping a few journaling days or like, and then that's whenever these things, you know, like, I, I think. I think there's no formula. I don't. I mean, you can, you can speak to that, but, like, there's. I. To me, there's no formula to it.

But I think humility, there always needs to be a humility component to it, because it's like I'm going before the sovereign God of the universe, like the Creator of the universe, like, and I'm going before him because Christ has made a way for me to go before him. And so I think there's a humility aspect.

And so even, you know, with those who are discouraged, like, you know, if you haven't had a prayer time in months because of this or this, or you're angry with God, or whatever the case may be. I think there is a way to come back from that.

You know, like, there is genuine humility and repentance of, like, acknowledging like, lord, I have prioritized the cares of this world over you. I have prioritized my own pride before you. Like, I have, like. But just own up to it, you know, like, own up to it, repent.

And I don't know, I've just. I've found the sweetness of his grace after repentance to be able to carry, you know, momentum towards what he's doing.

And so, I don't know, I've just really enjoyed that.

Jason: 00:53:32

You know, I think too. I think there are. There are people I. I see and then I just go, like, you have some kind of connection with God that I. I want and speed dial it.

It inspires me to want more of that. And I do think for. For those who might be, you know, anybody who's going, like, yeah, man, I'm what y' all talking about?

That's like light years ahead. I don't even know. But. But to hear the excitement of our voice in being with the Lord, I would pray would make somebody feel like I want that.

And so if I do have to humble myself and come before God and say, testing the micro. Is this thing on God? Are you listening to Try it out and figure it out.

But if the end of that is that kind of intimacy that you're experiencing, then I want it.

I think there's a hunger that being around the right people, reading the right kinds of books, doing the right kinds of things, it just exposes the more that people are missing. And I think if people would allow that to happen, they would say, I'm gonna dust off the Bible, open it up, seek the Lord. I'm gonna make some time.

I'll try this whole journaling thing. I don't know if this is working or not, but I want what you got. And so I'm after it.

And so that's my prayer too, that it would whet the appetite of some.

Becky: 00:54:47

I agree. I agree.

Jason: 00:54:49

Love there.

Becky: 00:54:49

You have your Bible here.

Is there any, you know, and obviously so much of scripture is pointing to prayer, but is there any, like, specific, you know, chapter or verse or even book of the Bible that you feel has really been.

Was formative in the early days of developing, you know, just kind of the culture of prayer that we're, you know, we have developed and we're continuing to develop here at our church. Like, is there. Is there some scripture that you, you know, Love to reread over and over.

Jason: 00:55:17

Well, I mean, Ephesians has become like one of the definitive books of the Bible to define at a season. It's where it's the first book that I memorized. Well, no, that's not true. I memorized Jonah and then forgot it just as quickly as I memorized Jonah.

Jonah. And then, yeah, when we were preaching through Jonah, I was like, ah, it's a little four chapter, trying to memorize that. But. And then my break.

And so I've tried new techniques now, but when I get to the book of Ephesians, there's just so much in there. But obviously, the idea of spiritual warfare and what that is, what it really is, will feed prayer like nothing else.

But I could memorize it, but I'm trying not to show off, honestly. So finally, be strong in the Lord, in the strength of his might. Put on the whole arm. Yeah, okay.

But put on the whole armor of God that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.

If we don't wrestle against flesh and blood, against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers of the present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. So we're wrestling against things that we can't see. Not fighting against you. I'm not fighting against you, which I never would anyway.

I'm not fighting against that person who cut me off that I want to flip off. None of that. I'm fighting against a real enemy who's working in my church, in my home, in my neighborhood, in my city, in this world.

And so I see that. And. But there's a little bit later on, you know, we focus a ton on, like, the sword of the spear or the.

The armor that we put on, and we end with the. And the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God, period. But actually, it's a comma.

It keeps on going, and it says, praying at all times in the Spirit with all prayer and supplication. And so the whole thing is encapsulated in this.

I got to recognize my spiritual battle so I can be ready and there's armor, but it finishes with praying at all times in the Spirit with all prayer and supplication. And so really, the fight is prayer. It's a spiritual warfare, and I cannot fight that with a physical sword.

Going over to 2 Corinthians, the divine weapons of warfare that we have, it's prayer. Prayer is our divine weapon. It is how we war.

And so that one, I think, keeps me, especially when I Think about my role leading the church, leading my family. If, if I'm going to make a difference in this world, it's not going to be by preaching killer messages because I'm just not good enough.

Like, I'm, I've grown better over time. I'm nowhere near a person who's going to change my city, much less even my church. I, my, my kids, they're phenomenal.

I can't help them in their problems. They 95% of everything in their life takes place outside of me being right there with them.

But I can war on their behalf and I can pray in the spirit at all times with prayer and supplication.

And things can happen in my kid's life, in my church's life, in my community's life, because I'm crying out to God, doors are being unlocked, things are happening. And so that gets me fired up about what could happen when I sit and the presence of the Lord. And I'm so delighted to be in his presence.

And then he says, all right, I want you to pray on this. I'm prompting you to be a part of this. I want you to war on this. And then I do that. And then I watch him open doors. And y' all know this.

Like in our church right now, we are seeing a sustained multi year move of God, of people who are coming to faith in Jesus Christ and are getting baptized. And I have never in my life felt like more of an evangelist than I do right now.

And I have never felt like less of an evangelist than all the years up to when we started, when I started my prayer journey. I've always been a Bible teacher.

I'll teach you the word of God and hopefully I'll give you some nuggets and you'll be like, wow, man, I hadn't thought about it that way. That's about it.

And given an invitation at the end, I'm like, I know none of y' all want to receive Jesus, but like, if you want to, you can go to the hospitality room, whatever. Like, I'm just not expecting at all. And I start praying and I start praying bold prayers, expectant prayers, call the church together.

And we start praying. And y' all remember, like we, we started weekly prayer gatherings and then we opened up baptism on Easter Sunday. And then the floodgates just going.

It hadn't stopped like every Sunday since then. That was three and a half years ago.

And it's just this wild ride now of every time I stand in the pulpit zur, you're going to be coming to the pulpit and you're going to be the same way, man. Like, I'm. My message could be as mediocre as possible. We've been praying. The saints have been praying.

And so I'm fully expecting some people to come down, fall on their knees and say, I'm ready for King Jesus. Because it's a divine war with divine weapons. And we're praying at all times in the spirit, and that's the way we fight the enemy in his darkness.

And so I just, like, that gets me saying, it's this or nothing, God.

Zer: 00:59:57

Yeah, yeah. And that gets me fired up. Because you said you get fired up, but hearing it and being part of it has gotten me fired up.

And just maybe you could just speak a little bit into this. Like, I know we maybe mentioned it on a Sunday morning at the end when we're encouraging, hey, we got prayer gathering this Wednesday.

We'd love to see you there.

And maybe the ratio of people that come on a Sunday morning but don't get to experience what we're experiencing on a Wednesday night, like, maybe right now is a platform to speak to them, just to say maybe. I don't encourage them, draw some excitement in them for what God can do in our prayer gatherings.

Jason: 01:00:34

I love the way the book of Revelation talks about prayer. You know, the prayers of the saints fill up bowls in the heavens.

And he looked in the bowl and that bowl is being poured out, and he says, what is that? That's the prayers of the saints. And so I'm not a scientist, but my guess would be the more prayers that are lifted, the quicker the bowl.

Like, they're like little drops from a droplet. You know, you got a bowl, but drop, drop, drop, drop, drop.

Zer: 01:01:04

At the water park.

Jason: 01:01:05

Yeah, yeah. If you got 500 people going, drop, drop, drop, it just fills up 500 times faster. If you got 5,000 people praying, it fills up 5,000 times faster.

I don't know if it works, like, exactly that ratio, but the things that God is doing right now, with 15 to 20% of our church showing up on wisdom not to pray, what would happen if 50 to 75% of our church showed up to pray? I genuinely believe it'd be 4 to 5x what we were seeing.

And I think what people don't realize is one hell itself is fighting and gets people coming to prayer gatherings. And the moment you recognize that, the moment you say, I'm not going to let hell win. And so, yep, I'm feeling busy. I got a headache.

I got this Thing coming up. I'm just not feeling great, and I'm not going.

If you recognize that that's the ploy of the enemy, because the enemy's smart enough to be scared of a praying church. And so he's going to do everything he can to get people not to pray. That's when we get to spit in the face of the enemy and go, I'm going to prayer.

Because obviously he's scared of me being here.

And then we go, and we don't realize, like, week after week, when I confess and God heals, it keeps that tire from going down the mountain, because I'm sitting there going, all right, I'm confessing. This is an unbelief that I have in me that leads me to deal with this so that it doesn't control my life anymore.

And so I'm receiving from that moment. I'm now experiencing the prayers of the saints, and then I'm moving forward.

And I'm a cause, through prayer, of the move of God, because I'm filling the bowls, and that bowl is pouring out upon the church. And so. And I. I mean, I just. As a pastor, I'm begging people, don't. Don't let the enemy win.

Come and pray and watch it be the most important hour and a half of the week for everybody, you know, for our staff. I tell us, like, the most important hour of the staff is Wednesday morning, 9am for one hour.

And we get on our knees and we pray and we cry out to the Lord. Because it does more than anything else.

Becky: 01:02:59

Yeah.

Jason: 01:03:00

And I love Sunday morning. It's. It's vitally important. I prep a lot for the messages, and we do a lot goes into that.

It only has power when the church is praying on Wednesday because that's the fuel that makes Sunday morning happen. And so the more people come and experience that, they'll delight in the presence of the Lord. They'll cause more to move.

They'll experience the joy of the unified faith of the body, and then that'll pour over. And not just Sunday morning, but every single day of the week. So I'd love more and more of the church to show up, and they will be blessed for it.

Becky: 01:03:27

Yeah. Amen. Amen. We kind of started talking about miracles and then went into prayer. And I just. I think I. I wrestle with the idea of, like, do.

Whenever we pray, should we go praying just to expect a miracle? Like you talked about, kind of like that level of, like, praying with expectation. Should a miracle be the expectation, or should it?

Or or should it be something else?

Jason: 01:03:53

Yeah, it's a great question. And I would turn it back to say 100%, you should expect a miracle, but you don't get to define the miracle, and that's the killer part.

And I preached on this one. I thought the greatest miracle in my life was not the healing of my back. It was the ability to say, God, not my will. Your will be done.

Don't heal me until you've taught me everything you want to teach me and done everything in me you want to do in me. That would have been miracle enough if he hadn't healed me. So did a miracle happen 100%, because he changed my heart. Is somebody saved? Am I.

Do I have joy now when I had burden? Do I have peace now when I had turmoil and anxiety? Those are genuine miracles.

My child who's wayward now, who comes back and says, I repent, forgive me. That's a genuine miracle.

If I just am at peace now, saying, I entrust this child to you even when they haven't turned, because I'm putting them in your hands and you know what you're doing. God and that peace that surpasses understanding, that's a genuine miracle. So do we expect miracles? 100. Do we define the miracles? We do not?

Becky: 01:04:57

Yes. Yes. I think that's a perfect distinction.

There's this book called the Reason for God by Tim Keller, and he wrote something that I thought was really good. He says, we modern people think of miracles as a suspension of the natural order, but Jesus meant them to be the restoration of the natural order.

And just like, as you were even talking, I reminded again of the surgery. And there was a song, so some background lore. There was a song that I had been listening to that I remember wrestling with.

I was like, I don't know how I feel about this song. Like, the. There's just a phrase in it that I don't know how I feel about.

And I was talking to one of my friends about it, and he was like, yeah, I get it. But, like, you know, it's still. It's still a decent song. And I was like, okay.

And when I was, you know, at the er, just in really, really agonizing pain, nothing was helping. They were trying to give me medicine. Nothing was doing anything. And I prayed, like, the only prayer that I could physically say out loud.

And I was just like, God, I need your help. Like, God, help me. And as I'm, like, clawing away at my abdomen and, you know, like, I don't think. And the Weird thing is, is I don't.

I don't think I was in the mindset to, like, predefine what I wanted him to do. I think I was just, like, in the desperation, like, help, like, that's the only thought I could form.

And, you know, it took time, but eventually, you know, I was fine. Like, after the surgery, pain was gone, all that, like, eventually, but that took hours.

But as I was, like, reflecting on it afterwards, I forgot that I even said anything to him while I was there. And I was reflecting on that. And then I realized that that song had been playing on repeat in my head the entire time I was at the hospital.

Like, it was almost like someone had, like, beats, headphones over my ear. And the song was connected to, like, an ipod somewhere, like, on repeat. And that song was literally playing on repeat the whole time I was there.

And, like, even whenever I came to from the surgery, the song was still playing, like, and it was as if it had been playing the whole time. And the song is like, thank you, Jesus, thank you, Jesus, thank you, Jesus, you have given me one more day.

And, oh, Lord, I just want to praise you because you mean everything and everything to me.

And just even, like, that song meant so much more to me at that point because I was like, lord, like, you may not have, you know, made it to where I didn't need the surgery or made it, but I was seen by you. And you sang a song of encouragement over me. And I didn't even. And, like, I don't.

I'm sure it did something to my heart in the moment, but, like, I didn't. I didn't ponder it until even after the fact. And I was like, the Lord did answer that prayer. He did help me.

He, like, sustained me to endure and sang a song over me while it was happening. And so just even the thought of, like, it doesn't have to be like, this super massive dissertation of a prayer, but just like, that was all I had.

Like, that was all I had to give. And he answered it, and in a way that I didn't expect, but in a way that encouraged me even. Well after the fact that.

Jason: 01:08:02

Yeah. So my favorite part of that whole story was you said you had an ipod, and yeah, it's like, yeah, you had your Walkman with your cassette.

Zer: 01:08:11

Millennial, right?

Becky: 01:08:13

What was that other Zune? It was the Zun, the black Zun. Do you guys remember that? That was like, it was competing with the ipod. And they did not. They didn't win that fight.

But anyways, yeah, as an iPod. IPod nano 4 channel.

Jason: 01:08:24

Yeah. But you guys, by the way, my heart hurts so bad to hear you have to recount what you went through.

So for you to see the presence of God and to feel the presence of God, that. That is a miracle.

Becky: 01:08:41

Yeah.

Jason: 01:08:41

Like God, in my most excruciating moment, you're with me.

Becky: 01:08:45

Yeah.

Jason: 01:08:45

And you didn't take it away. You could have. You could have just snapped your finger. The pain would have been gone, but instead, you chose to walk with me. And. Yeah.

There's nothing deeper in the gospel of Jesus than that.

Becky: 01:08:54

I agree. And I think being a believer doesn't exempt you from suffering, and I think.

Jason: 01:09:00

That actually qualifies you for something.

Becky: 01:09:02

Exactly. And I feel like it is one of the. At least in my life, it has been. One of the things that has strengthened my faith the most is suffering.

And it's like a pruning. It's like there's a disbelief that I feel that his holy fire burns away, but that can only happen in the furnace. And so I don't know. I've.

I feel like.

I agree, like, we don't get to define what the miracle looks like, but I think we should always be expectant when we're coming in before the place of God. So you guys have any final thoughts?

Zer: 01:09:36

That's good. I just want to leave them with something like. Or maybe you have the answers for it. But I know we have resources for journaling and prayer.

Do you all know the. I would just love to equip them with that.

Jason: 01:09:55

Or is it prayer?

Zer: 01:09:56

Prayer.

Becky: 01:09:56

I think it's prayer.

Zer: 01:09:57

I think that's the prayer form.

Becky: 01:09:58

Okay, so journaling guide. So if you go to fielder.orgjournalorjournaling, you'll pull up our five journaling tips with a video from our very own Pastor Jason.

But if you need prayer, like, you're just like, I need someone to come alongside me and pray. Feeler.org Prayer we'd love to pray alongside you and come to a prayer gathering.

You know, like, there's always information about that on the website.

Jason: 01:10:20

That's where we teach how to pray, too.

Becky: 01:10:22

Exactly. And I think we have a lot of elements to prayer.

And we clean house with confession and, you know, remove the clouds of, you know, not being able to hear from the voice of God through repentance and his forgiveness and grace. And so we worship together and we pray for the lost, so be able to experience what we get to experience.

Jason: 01:10:44

One of my favorite parts about prayer gathering is how many young adults come to prayer gathering. You can just tell, like, man, Gen Z. And, you know, they. They. They're hungry. Hungry for Jesus.

Becky: 01:10:55

Yeah.

Jason: 01:10:55

And I love it. That attitude of worship and reckless abandon.

Becky: 01:10:59

Yes.

Jason: 01:10:59

Is so beautiful. And I would say, too, for all of y', all, prayer is something that you learn by doing.

And so, yeah, you might read books about it, but prayer, you learn by doing. There's no better way. And so, you know, I mean, to your point, get the resources and just give it a try. And you.

You will get better at it by doing it. You'll get worse at it by not doing it. So it's pretty simple. Prayer gathering is just. It's a flywheel push.

You know, it's just a chance to, like, come do it. Come stretch yourself.

And there are people I hear all the time who will say, like, I never in my life one time prayed out loud in front of somebody else. And then I went to a prayer gathering, and I did, and it was so beautiful. And God stretched me, and now I realize I can pray out loud.

That's a freedom. Yeah. And I want more people to find it.

Becky: 01:11:45

Yeah, I agree. I agree. I agree. Okay, well, thank you so much for coming.

I feel like I was able to speak a little bit more, like, freely, because I knew you would be here. But anyways, thank you guys so much for joining us and listening to this.

We appreciate you guys just, you know, even asking and being open to hear more about prayer and whether or not we believe in miracles. So, yeah, thank you so much for joining us, and we love you guys. Peace out.

Zer: 01:12:13

Peace.